The following interview was conducted by K. R. Bolton with Miguel Serrano in 1994. It was published at that time in a small, privately circulated newsletter. A writer of literature, Serrano communicated his ideas via symbols and metaphors, which he had woven idiosyncratically into a sprawling mytho-history, or metanarrative, that drew from new and old concepts and various mythological and esoteric traditions. Strict rationalists and those unfamiliar with Serrano’s work will find his worldview perplexing, to say the least. And certainly, writers like Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke have had a hard time getting their heads around it, focusing on superficial appearance rather than deeper meaning. The fact is that behind the rich symbology and figures of speech, there is a profound philosophical outlook and spiritual quest, an alternative—ultimately pagan—way of conceptualising our world and our day-to-day reality. In this interview he discusses ideas from the later part of his work, as he gives his opinion on the modern situation, as he saw it in the mid 1990s.
You define yourself as an Esoteric Hitlerist’. Please explain the term.
Hitler said that ‘whoever thinks that National Socialism is only a political movement doesn’t understand anything’. National Socialism was always Hitlerism, and Hitlerism always had an esoterical background. At the end of the 1930s and during the war years, it was not possible or convenient that this theme be widely known. However, after he war and its apparent loss, there was no other way for Hitlerism than the esoteric development. For me Esoteric Hitlerism is being possessed by the archetypes of the collective unconscious, which the Greeks used to call Gods – among them Apollo, which really is Wotan for the Germans and Vishnu or Shiva for the Hindus – and its development into the individual and collective souls of the actual Hitlerist warriors. That means a new/old religion, with all of its rituals and myths which are necessary to discover or rediscover. It central Drama is the apparition on this earth of the Person of Adolf Hitler, the last Avatara who came to produce this enormous storm of catastrophe in order to awake all those who are asleep and to open the New Age which will come after the Deluge. That is why we have started to count the beginning of the New Age after the birth of Hitler. We are in the year 105.
How did you arrive at Hitlerism, both esoterically and exoterically?
I arrived to the exoteric Hitlerism for the political Left, and very much impressed by the heroic death of the 62 young Chilean Nazi followers of my generation in 1938. During the War I published a magazine in favour of the Axis, called La Nueva Edad (‘the New Era’) and the suddenly I met some SS and little later my Chilean Master, who revealed to me the secret roots of Hitlerism and ‘who’ Adolf Hitler really was: a magician who had the power to come voluntarily out of his body and communicate with other unbodily beings.
Does your esotericism imply any form of ritual or worship?
Yes, it does. I think that we in Chile are the only ones who performed public ceremonies similar to those performed at the Congress of Nuremberg, like ‘Autos Sacramentales’. But now not in public anymore. The rituals can be in the Equinoxes and the solstices. Also we use individual concentrations, sometimes in very small groups, thinking in our Führer or projecting the mind in order to fight or destroy the contrary enemy’s forces.
Do you believe events can be changed ‘magically’; i.e. via ritual magic and meditation?
Yes, is possible, but it is a tricky and dangerous affair. Today the Enemy works mentally using the Kabala and electronic machines (‘Takion’), projecting sub-atomic particles in order to control the minds. Yes, today the central war is psychotronic, technotronic and cybertronic. The principal war is a mental, one, called ‘Kama Manasic’. This means that the enemy is intervening in the mental atmosphere of the Aryan, manipulating their thoughts and separating the mental from the physical, bodies, altering the Karma and it is spiritual development. In a way, the whole world is hypnotized by these means, combined with subliminal messages found in today’s media, as well as drugs and drinks like Coca-Cola, Pepsi-Cola, etc. Yes, mental war can be fought only with a similar type of war. Of course this needs a special discipline and training, like the Esoteric SS, other ancient religious military orders of the past.
To what extent does your esotericism relate to Jungian archetypes and the use of symbols such as runes?
Yes, the runes are very important magic symbols, but the code of their interpretation has been lost and its power almost destroyed by the malicious vulgarisation made by the Jews. It is necessary to rescue them, as I did in my book Adolf Hitler, The Last Avatara. We must use some of them in our mental combat. However, it is not good to talk openly about all of this.
In what circumstances did you come to know Jung? We know that Jung recognised National Socialism as a resurgence of the Wotan ‘Shadow’ of the Germanic folk. Did Jung view the release of this archetype as a positive or a negative phenomenon?
In my book published in England and the US, C. G. Jung & Herman Hesse, A Record of Two Friendships, I explained the circumstances which brought me to meet Jung. He wrote the Foreword to my book The Visits of the Queen of Sheba. I think that this Swiss professor knew better than anyone else in our time who Hitler really was. In the book of Professor McQuyre, Jung Speaking, published by Princeton University Press, three interviews of Prof. Jung on Hitler are reproduced. One is in The Observer of London, another in an American newspaper and the third in the Radio Berlin, at the end of 1938. In these interviews Jung stated that Hitler was possessed by the collective unconscious of the Aryan race. This means that Hitler was the spokesman of the whole Aryan world. In order not to repeat the same, I can tell you that I studied and explained this extraordinary situation in my book Adolf Hitler, The Last Avatara, published in Chile.
Some friends of Jung’s such as Lauren van der Post state that Jung came into conflict with the National Socialist regime. What were Jung’s true views on National Socialism in the later years of his life?
Prof. Jung was an enormous thinker, but he was a Swiss and therefore a contradictory personality. Very different in character to Heidegger, as a matter of fact. Immediately after the war he started to change and made some very shameful statements about Hitler and the German people. I didn’t know about these statements until very recently, and they have made me lose part of my admiration for the Jung personality. Also, Jung didn’t understand anything about Wotanism and the runes. I think this was caused by his Christian background. His father was a Lutheran priest, as was the father of Herman Hesse, Holderling, and if I am not mistaken the father of Nietzsche. This fact creates such a confusion and internal drama, that it drove the last two to madness. The furthest Jung could go was Meister Ekhard and gnosticism. On the other hand he was a Freemason, as Lutheran men are.
Nevertheless, Jung was a cunning and opportunistic man, as I can see it today. When Hitler was in full power and National Socialism on the top, Jung coined the term of the ‘two collective unconscious’, which was a lethal weapon against the Jews and the Freudians. After the war this concept disappeared from his writings in such a way that today it is impossible to find it in his complete works. I have a book published in Argentina in 1939 under the name El Yo y el Inconsciente (‘I and the Unconscious’) where it is explained. Moreover, Jung took a Jewish woman as a secretary.
In this case the statement on Van der Post that Jung came into conflict with the National Socialist regime is totally untrue. He only was the President of the Psychiatric Society of Berlin, replacing Dr. Goering (brother of Herman Goering). Jung only tried to please the National Socialists at the time, and after its defeat, to please the Jews. This was never done by Heidegger or Ezra Pound. It is because of this fact that even though I admire the thinking of Jung, I have come not to admire his character.
What were the circumstances in which you came to know Ezra Pound? Pound is said to have repudiated his pro-Fascist views towards the end of his life and to have regretted his former Fascist associations. Is this true?
I met Ezra Pound for the first time in Venice. He was already mute at the time, but he broke his silence with me. I have told this in my book published in Spanish and German under the title Die Goldenen Band, and again in Adolf Hitler, el Ultimo Avatara. It is absolutely untrue that Pound regretted his pro-Fascist views towards the end of his life. He didn’t speak or write at all, therefore it is impossible for him to have done this. I think he was in a voluntary silence in order that no one can force him to make an unwilling declaration. He once wrote: ‘Keep yourself to your old dreams so that our world will not lose hope’.
Unfortunately, Pound was surrounded by people who loved him (like Olga Rudge) but didn’t understand him. Themecanas Ivancic, a friend of Hemingway, was also amongst those who didn’t understand him well, and they invited to Pound’s funeral the Rabbi of Venice, who of course refused to go. Maybe they were trying to convince the Jews to give him a posthumous Nobel Prize. What a pity! Anyhow, Pound, Knut Hamsun, Arno Breker, and myself are happy and honoured to be the outcast and damned in the present Jewish world.
Many writers on the occult have made references to alleged links between the Third Reich and Tibet, but often these writers are not reliable scholars. Can you personally confirm that such links existed? Did you learn anything of this connection form the Dalai Lama or other high-level Tibetans? What do you suppose were the common interests between the Third Reich and Tibet? It has also been claimed that Soviet troops found a large number of Tibetans in German uniform who had committed suicide amongst the ruins of Berlin. Do you know anything of this?
The only certain thing in the link between Tibet and the Third Reich is the personal connection between Adolf Hitler and Sven Hedin, the Swedish explorer of the Himalayas. Both were interested in find the shortest physical way to relate geographically Germany and Tibet – Berlin and Lhasa.
In the spiritual and psychological world, the relationship between Berschtesgaden and Lhasa existed even before Hitler came.
You ask me about Dalai Lama. Unfortunately he is now one more prisoner of ‘Globalism’ and a tool of the Jews.
There are many legends about the Tibetans and the Battle of the Bunker. As a matter of fact, the mission of the Tibetans was to preserve and protect the entrance of the Hollow Earth. Like the Incas in America. The real link between Tibet and the Third Reich was the swastika, Left-Turning, because the directions of this swastika are the same as that of the religion of Bö, of pre-Buddhist Tibet, which was Aryan of the ‘Dropas’, of the Hyperborean.
What were the esoteric currents behind the NSDAP and the Third Reich?
Hitlerism as Otto Rahn could say, was Luciferian (nothing to do with Satanism). Lucifer is the Morning Star and the Ruhne ‘Veneris’. The real esotericism behind Hitler and the very small elite that surrounded him was an ‘esoterical scientificism’ of ‘other’ technology. This was principally based on the implosion principle. This led to the UFOs and rapidly passed to another dimension, with the absolute need to lose the war here in order to gain in the ‘parallel world’, or even better, in another ‘place situation’.
The National Socialist regime banned the Thule Society and other occult orders whose members had been involved with the founding of the NSDAP. Why were these orders banned? Did the Thulists and other occultists retain influence in the NS regime?
The Third Reich banned the Thule Society and other occult orders because there was much old nonsense in these clubs, as well as some connections with Freemasonic societies like the Golden Dawn. The founder of ‘Thule’, von Sebottendorff, had connections with Turkish Freemasonry. Immediately after the arrival of the Third Reich he escaped to Istanbul, where it is said he committed suicide in the Bosphorous in 1945, at the end of the war. He was probably killed by the Intelligence Service, after being manipulated by it during his lifetime.
This doesn’t mean that in the Thule Society there weren’t great personalities like Rudolf Hess, Alfred Rosenberg, and Gottfried Feder, the real creator of the new economy of the Third Reich.
Do you consider the SS to have been an esoteric order as some authors claim?
The SS was also influenced by the Templar Order, as Julius Evola said to me. There was an elite SS which was working with Tantrism. They didn’t have enough time to fulfill their conceptions. Anyhow, they tried hard to produce the Over-Man by using blood alchemy. The Absolute Man.
So you consider National Socialism to have been strictly a phenomenon arising to meet the needs of the 20th century, or to be more broadly part of an esoteric tradition?
There was an exoteric National Socialism until 1945. After this date, at the end of the war, what followed was the esoteric Hitlerism, which nobody will be able to stop now because it is the ‘constellation’ and revelation of an Archetype which was incarnated in the person of Adolf Hitler, who is immortal because of this fact. It is not a ‘fetishism’ to adore and be at the service of an Archetype. Quite the contrary, this means to be a founder or a warrior-priest of a new-old Religion.
How do you view Christianity in relation to National Socialism and Fascism, considering many Fascist leaders such as Leon Degrelle came to National Socialism from Catholicism?
Hitlerism and Christianity are completely opposed, as are Paganism and Christianity. Christianity has been completely spoiled by Judaism. My dearest friend and comrade Leon Degrelle had great doubts at the end of his life, I am afraid. And by special disposition asked to be cremated like Baldur. This was an Aryan decision and not a Christian one.
Do you have a metaphysical view on the origin of the races, or a Darwinian evolutionary view?
I am opposed to Darwin in my conception of race, I don’t have evolutionary views, but involutionary ones. What a pity that my books Adolf Hitler, El Ultimo Avatara and Manu, Por el Hombre que Vendra are not edited in English [no longer the case], because there you would find the Orpheon and Hitlerian Cosmogony. Spirits – better to say ‘beings’ – came to this visible world and embodied with matter in order to fight here the Demiurge, which is the real creator of Satan-Jaweh-Jehovah, which in turn created the Jewish genetic robot in order to contaminate the Planet Earth. The first ‘earth embodiment’ of these spirits took place in a Polar body or Hyperborean race. From there in came the dramatic involutionary story of the mixture of the pure race with the original earthly beings and then came the Aryans, which means ‘twice born’; that is, those who try to recover the purity of the ‘first born’. This is the true meaning of racism.
You are, I believe, a worshiper of Shiva. To what extent is National Socialism a reflection of Hindu cosmology as propounded, for example, by Savitri Devi?
Shiva is the same as Wotan. Both of them at the beginning were only heroes of the Polar or Hyperborean race, the embodiment of an Archetype. The legend has made them Gods. The first race had the power called ‘odil’, ‘vril’, etc. which has now been lost. The task of the Esoteric Hitlerists is to try to recover this Power and become like Shiva or Wotan again: The Over-Man.
Do you consider history as cyclic, and if so, do you consider, like Oswald Spengler, the West to be in irreversible decline? Should we seek to ‘save the West’, or – as Nietzsche said – ‘to push the falling’, so that something new might emerge?
I think the view of History as a cyclical phenomenon in the Indian and Greek way of thinking is the appropriate one. The Eternal Recurrence. We are now at the end of the Cycle of the Kali-Yuga. It is like a harvest; the exact number of grains have matured and very few have done so. A new age will being about the Sun again in a New Earth, or in the soul of the actual Earth. Our struggle is to save the soul of this Earth, and to avoid that she may perish along with everything else. The exact number of those saved have left this battleground in the UFOs – this spiritual machine with Hitler, the Führer, Wotan-Shiva.
I think that Spengler confused the cyclical ideas of the Indians and the Greeks, diminishing and transforming them into a mechanical and biological situation of growing and dying. He circumscribed this to the decadency of the Western Civilisation, when really it belonged to the whole world, and for the planet Earth as well.
As for ‘pushing the falling’. It is something quite ridiculous to think about this, because it is not necessary at all. The ‘acceleration of time’ will bring the end even before what we can think or expect.
How do you view the present world situation, with a push towards a ‘New World Order’, American hegemony and global consumer culture? Do you think the globalists will succeed in establishing some type of New World Order, even if only temporarily?
The Jews have been preparing the so-called New World Order since the beginning of History. The ‘global consumer culture’ is the means for that. It is already here. With the end of Bolshevist Russia, international capitalism is destroying the frontiers and nationalities. Soon after there will come the end of capitalism, of paper, plastic, and electronic money. The technotronic, electronic, and cybertronic ‘globalism’ will serve very well to impose the Theocratic (Jehovah-Jaweh) world dictatorship, together with virtual reality and computer ecology. With virtual reality the Jews think that they have discovered a magic device in order to give the last and mortal bow to actual reality, or to Mother Nature, in a way that even nature cannot react against this and destroy itself along with the rest.
The Esoteric Hitlerist war is not only on this Earth, but in all the Universe against the servants of the Demiurge (the enslaves Aions). It is a terrible but glorious War.
How do you envisage the future of Europe? Do you think a United Europe is a realistic prospect, considering the long-standing ethnic rivalry in such areas as former Yugoslavia?
At the end of World War II the SS approved and made known the ‘Charter of Charlotenburg’, and the conceived a real ‘New World, Order’ of Ethnic Fatherlands, or natural groupings of racial and linguistic stocks. They even published a map of Europe where all the artificial boundaries dating form World War I were abolished. With the material of loss of World War II, the ‘Charter of San Francisco’ was approved, that is the United Nations, where all races are mixed so that the Jews can control them. This is the ‘Globalism’ of today’s unnatural and monstrous world.
What role do you think Russia will take in future world affairs? Many liberals and Zionists are fearful of a ‘Fascist’ takeover of Russia. Do you think it likely?
I am always afraid of Russia; there is there a seed of madness in this area of the world, surely because of the mixture of the Mongolian and yellow races. The ‘Charter of Charlotenburg’ envisaged for Russia a very serious and deep ethnic division: the Viking and German stock with Europe, and the rest with Asia, Mongolia and China. In order to have Fascism and Nazism in Russia it is necessary to understand the racial problem.
The prospect of an open Hitlerist resurgence after decades of propaganda seems remote.
Miguel Serrano and Léon Degrelle
How do you view that future of National Socialism? Will National Socialism emerge perhaps under another name and another symbol; or do you see Hitler and the swastika as enduring symbols, perhaps even archetypes with an enduring power of their own?
At this moment I cannot predict the prospect of a Hitlerist resurgence. The only thing that I can say is that I am always surprised that in spite of decades of brainwashing propaganda, young people are born again as Nazis and admirers of Hitler, as if they were ‘reincarnated’ in order to follow with the struggle on Earth. This gives me hope and new energies to continue with the fight.
Hitler and the swastika are enduring and eternal symbols, certainly archetypes with ‘enduring powers of their own’. The Archetype will do the world by Itself, even without our best knowledge and beyond out will and our limited span of life. That is our hope, our belief and the only thing that I know.
The Chilean military junta was called ‘fascist’ but let in the global corporations and adopted the free market economics of Milton Friedman et al. How did you view the Junta?
The Junta was a disaster for Chile, as are all professional military. Hitlerism and Nazism are completely the opposite of a military dictatorship; Franco was a traitor who destroyed the Falange. Gen. Vargas destroyed fascist ‘Integralism’ in Brazil; Antonescu destroyed the Iron Guard in Romania; the military in Chile helped to kill the young Nazis in 1938, and Pinochet helped the Jews coming into Chile as well as Friedman’s liberal super-capitalism. I was always openly against Pinochet’s regime, totally separating Hitlerism from his dictatorship. Hitlerism is a cosmogonic conception, a totalitarian and theocratic Weltanschauung, in opposition to the totalitarian and demoniac cosmogonic conception of the Jews.
What is your view of Islam which presently seems to be the only major force standing in the way of global consumerism and usury?
My view of Islam is not favourable at all. They are also a fanatic monotheistic people, and we are pagans and polytheists. We ‘live and let live’. We are defending ourselves against fanaticism and monotheism. Islam will never feel that we are their brothers and at the end we cannot count on them. Isthmael is a bother of Jacob and in the final analysis they will be on good terms, as they have started to do nowadays.
I have read that you have made references to Lucifer. How do you view Lucifer, and is there a connection between Luciferianism and Esoteric Hitlerism?
Yes, I am a Luciferian in the sense that Lucifer is the Morning Star, the ‘most beautiful light’, and the Morning star is a God-Goddess, Venus. It is more than a planet, it is a comet that stopped where it is now, in order to recall to men their divine and spiritual origin and to show them that way to recover it. There, in Venus, is Adolf Hitler now, together with the elite who managed to leave the Earth at the end of World War II.
What is you opinion of ‘neo-Nazism’, which often seems to be influenced by a superficial American-style bigotry rather than a deeper European philosophy? What is your opinion of such neo-Nazi leaders as Lincoln Rockwell?
I will not speak bad of Rockwell. I think he was touched by the lightning of the Archetype and was killed in order to be reborn in the ‘Last Battalion’. His loyal follower Matt Koehl has been trying hard to keep some spark of the fire alive, even in the midst of this terribly superficial ‘American-style bigotry’.
What do you consider Man’s destiny to be? Nietzschean Over-Man? What about space colonisation as the ultimate expression of the Faustian soul?
There is no destiny for all of mankind, only for some. To recover their divinity, but not as ‘unconscious Gods’, but fully conscious, as a Total-Man, in the sense of Jungian ‘individuation’; a God conscious of himself which is only possible to achieve on this Earth. To obtain this is the meaning of Esoteric Hitlerism. When one has reached this state, one becomes the UFO or ‘vimana’ itself, without needing an external new science or a new technology, because one is reaching a ‘parallel world’, or better said, a new ‘place-situation’ where we will meet the Führer and the Warriors of the Last Battalion. This will be the real ‘space colonisation’ and the ‘ultimate expression of the Faustian soul’.
I want to express to the young comrades in England, Australia, and New Zealand and to the English- and German-speaking world at large, that none of these things will be obtained if we don’t give a synchronistic battle also in the physical world against the Great Enemy, even at the risk of losing our mortal life. In this we have a common ideal with the Moslems, who think to die in battle in order to reach the Heaven of Allah. We believe that if we are killed or murdered for our ideals we will come to Walhalla, where Wotan and our Walkiria will give us, centuplicated, all of that which we were unable to achieve in our warrior life on Earth … but only if we are real Esoteric Hitlerist Warriors!